Curse

vader · Jun 24, 2009, 01:20 PM // 13:20

I know the Imbagon seems to be a fairly popular build for Paragons so I looked it up on PvX:

Spear Mastery 11 + 1 + 1
Command 8 + 1
Leadership 11 + 1

"Save Yourselves!"
"There's Nothing to Fear!"
Ebon Battle Standard of Honor
"For Great Justice!"
Focused Anger
Aggressive Refrain

The last 2 skills are optional but PvX mentions a bunch of other skills and a couple of attack skills to put there. If you are running an Imbagon build, are you expected to be dealing damage? What skills are Imbagons running in those last 2 slots?

Eragon Zarroc · Jun 24, 2009, 01:46 PM // 13:46

spear of fury and anthem of flame for 6 adrenaline every 10 secs. this will force u to remove ebon standard since spear of fury is pve only. replace it with a sig or something else interesting. i've been using "go for the eyes" lately since it no longer has a recharge and charges every 2 hits with double adren.

12+1+1 leadership for 7 energy back everytime u use shouts. spear mastery being that high isnt all that important since ur not a dmg dealer like u said.

[Morkai] · Jun 24, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Yes. Yes you are.

This build is capable of dealing Warrior DPS at range, grab your favourite two energy based attack skills, and throw em on your bar. Sit back, enjoy Godlike gameplay.

zelgadissan · Jun 24, 2009, 01:58 PM // 13:58

BTW, if you can get your hands on a 15 AL/7 Command shield, the ideal setup is 12+1+1 Spear, 11+1 Leadership, 6+1 Command.

The two attack skills that seem to work best for me (and suggested in the sticky) are Vicious Attack and Swift Javelin.

IronSheik · Jun 24, 2009, 05:31 PM // 17:31

I prefer being more support, with the recent buffs you can get a damn near close to maintainable stand your ground, 24 armor. I run Soldier's Fury with spear of fury for better adrenaline management. With Stand your ground as my chant for soldier's fury

Unreal Havoc · Jun 24, 2009, 06:16 PM // 18:16

If you're running Command at 8+1 then I see no reason to not bring "Find Their Weakness!" on your bar.

Racthoh · Jun 24, 2009, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

spear of fury and anthem of flame for 6 adrenaline every 10 secs. this will force u to remove ebon standard since spear of fury is pve only. replace it with a sig or something else interesting. i've been using "go for the eyes" lately since it no longer has a recharge and charges every 2 hits with double adren.

12+1+1 leadership for 7 energy back everytime u use shouts. spear mastery being that high isnt all that important since ur not a dmg dealer like u said.

Your bar then consists of:

Aggressive Refrain
"Save Yourselves!"
Focused Anger
"There's Nothing To Fear!"
"For Great Justice!"
Anthem of Flame
Spear of Fury
"Go For The Eyes!"

Leadership: 12 + 1 + 1
Command: ?
Spear Mastery: ?

You have way too much energy with that setup. There is no reason to run 14 Leadership with two adrenaline shouts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

I prefer being more support, with the recent buffs you can get a damn near close to maintainable stand your ground, 24 armor.

24 armor for yourself is not worth wasting a skill slot. If you plan on being attacked there isn't a point in running "Save Yourselves!" now is there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

I run Soldier's Fury with spear of fury for better adrenaline management. With Stand your ground as my chant for soldier's fury

Aggressive Refrain, Focused Anger, and "For Great Justice!" provides nearly a 100% uptime for "Save Yourselves!" with just auto-attacks on a faction rank lower than 4. Slotting a bad/useless shout with a mediocre elite and an okay PvE skill to replace what auto-attacking with three other skills can do doesn't seem logical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

The two attack skills that seem to work best for me (and suggested in the sticky) are Vicious Attack and Swift Javelin.

Spear of Lightning over Swift Javelin if Order of Pain/Vampire, Barbs, etc... aren't present. I'd also consider "Find Their Weakness!" over Vicious Attack now as well. Even at a 6 + 1 Command split (if you have the 15 AL shield) the additional damage is still decent, the ability to pre-cast before combat, but more importantly the guaranteed deep wound.

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 24, 2009, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Imbagons are ment to save your party...literally.....forever lol

Buns United · Jun 24, 2009, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

If you're running Command at 8+1 then I see no reason to not bring "Find Their Weakness!" on your bar.

I do, "Find Their Weakness!" is bugged in the way that the description is off. It only affects target ally's next hit.

Lishy · Jun 24, 2009, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

spear of fury and anthem of flame for 6 adrenaline every 10 secs.

But Anthem of Flame applies AFTER spear of fury, doesn't it?

zelgadissan · Jun 24, 2009, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

But Anthem of Flame applies AFTER spear of fury, doesn't it?

The condition caused by Anthem of Flame (as well as Anthem of Weariness) triggers Spear of Fury's adrenaline boost, even if the enemy didn't previously have a condition.

Edit: well, I should say they used to. I can't get in-game to test at the Isle, but at least a month ago they did. Who knows after that buggy update

Lishy · Jun 24, 2009, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Oh, flame does work. I never knew that. Weariness is still better though :P

The Riven · Jun 24, 2009, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Anthem of Weariness and Vicious Attack, Weariness is just better than flame. Vicious attack... deep wound is handy.

Tzalaran · Jun 26, 2009, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Aggressive Refrain, Focused Anger, and "For Great Justice!" provides nearly a 100% uptime for "Save Yourselves!" with just auto-attacks on a faction rank lower than 4.

QFT
With an orders spamming Dark Fury you can get near total coverage with the Soldiers Fury build, but if you want maximum efficiency FA FGJ + AR > SF + SoF + another shout. (This is especially true when working with 8 other players, where you don't get your heroes working for you.)

if you're running with other people that are focusing on defense (another Para...), you can get away with Soldier's builds, but if your role is the primary damage reducer go with what Racthoh says. i liked the extra 8% attack speed with no cracked armor too, but after testing myself i found Racthoh's method keeps the party alive better because of Spear of Fury's recharge time and SY!'s subsequent down time (For me it was always about a 4 second gap, and i was r3 at the time). 33% adrenaline gain just can't compete with 100% (i think it maxes there), even if you are attacking every second instead of every ~1.12 seconds.

i personally run wild throw (and only use it to end blocking stances) with Find Their Weakness/swift Javelin (i'm with heroes) or Sig of Return (with alliancemates). i find ending stances to be more important than additional damage or DW (other characters supply DW for me). the last two slots are really what you are most comfortable with anyway.

Smarty · Jun 26, 2009, 11:57 AM // 11:57

I think I'm more confused after reading this thread than I was before I started.

Questions:

Is the att spread in the OP/on wiki still optimal for someone with a q9 command shield? If not, what should it be changed to, and why?

Do people take EBSoH on their imbas, or do they take Spear of Fury as their third PvE skill instead, which is what I've been doing as I haven't done the charr quests yet?

What are the best two skills for the last two slots? I've been taking Anthem of Weariness and "Go for the Eyes!". Would I be better off dropping GftE for a second attack skill eg Vicious Attack if I stick with Spear of Fury over EBSoH, or should I only drop it if I keep EBSoH? Would I be better off dropping one of the chants for the newly-buffed "Find Their Weakness!", and if so which one, and when people say it's bugged and only applies to the next attack do they mean the +dmg or the deep wound part? Thanks.

The Riven · Jun 26, 2009, 12:44 PM // 12:44

If you have a r9 Command Shield then you have no need to change attributes.

The question of Spear of Fury over EBSoH is basicly a matter of taste and playstyles, both are viable but EBSoH is handy if running with other ranged phys.

Dropping GFtE for Vicious is again a matter of personal preferance, i personaly use Vicious as i like having at least 1 attack skill, relying on auto attacks is all well and good but i would rather aply a deep wound sometimes.

Life Bringing · Jun 26, 2009, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Smartypants

I think I'm more confused after reading this thread than I was before I started.

Questions:

Is the att spread in the OP/on wiki still optimal for someone with a q9 command shield? If not, what should it be changed to, and why?

Yes, if you have a Q9 command shield, the attribs on wiki are exactly what they should be. However, the optimum shield for an imbagon is a Q7 15AR shield so you can spec more heavily into spear mastery.

Quote:

Do people take EBSoH on their imbas, or do they take Spear of Fury as their third PvE skill instead, which is what I've been doing as I haven't done the charr quests yet?

If you don't have access to EBSoH, or if you have a really low kurzick rank, spear of fury might be the better choice. However, EBSoH is a much more beneficial skill than SoF.

Quote:

What are the best two skills for the last two slots? I've been taking Anthem of Weariness and "Go for the Eyes!". Would I be better off dropping GftE for a second attack skill eg Vicious Attack if I stick with Spear of Fury over EBSoH, or should I only drop it if I keep EBSoH? Would I be better off dropping one of the chants for the newly-buffed "Find Their Weakness!", and if so which one, and when people say it's bugged and only applies to the next attack do they mean the +dmg or the deep wound part? Thanks.

You should basically listen to Racthoh here, as he is crazy good with paragons(wave to Mallyx everybody). Before the buff to FtW!, the best choices were Vicious and Spear of Lightning(swift javelin if running with an orders bot). Since the buff, FtW! can be a good replacement for Vicious, since it's a guaranteed DW. As the the bug on FtW, it's more of a miswording than a bug. When reading the skill, it seems like DW should trigger on the first attack, but the +damage should continue for x seconds. In reality, the skill ends after one attack.

Smarty · Jun 27, 2009, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Thanks for the clarifications, both. I went out and did the EBSoH quest so I'll rejig my bar some more and see how I get on with it compared to my usual version in tomorrow's zquest.

Chthon · Jun 27, 2009, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Since the buff, FtW! can be a good replacement for Vicious, since it's a guaranteed DW. As the the bug on FtW, it's more of a miswording than a bug. When reading the skill, it seems like DW should trigger on the first attack, but the +damage should continue for x seconds. In reality, the skill ends after one attack.

Yes, FtW is less a buff than an attack skill that happens to be a shout.

At 14/7 the DPS is only 0.64 less than Vicious, and, for those of us unfortunate enough not to own req7 shields, at 13/9 the DPS is only 0.12 less than Vicious. Since you can precast FtW, a battle has to last at least 40.5 sec at 14/7 for Vicious to catch up to FtW's DPS headstart. At 13/9, the battle needs to last 274.3 sec for Vicious to catch up. Then there's the guaranteed deep wound.

In my book, that makes FtW look like the superior choice in most circumstances.

A second question is whether to drop Swift instead of Vicious.

A totally unrelated question (but one that interests me) is whether there's a way to get bladeturn refrain running for an acceptable cost in skillslots and attribute points.

Life Bringing · Jun 27, 2009, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Vicious has a shorter recharge(I think) but swift javelin gets the bonus of being unblockable. Your second question is somewhat difficult to answer. The bet solution would be to run bladeturn on your standard Commandgon. If you really want it on an imba, you could drop Spear down to 10(plus runes), and pump up command.